Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of Brian Moss's Guitar: The Raven
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Hello all! Thank you @damian for hosting this Q&A. And thank you all for your interest in my work. I hope to answer your questions in the next 90 min or so, and I will do my best to follow up at a later time if needed. There isn't a day that goes by that I am not thankful I met Brian, and that I have the opportunity to work with Spafford and learn from them and help them where I can. I am so grateful for this community that we have created - that we can all come together like we are now and discuss what we love and share in common.
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@uconnwes I'm here. Hello Wes! I'm working on you question right now...
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@RadiantDarkness I will quickly answer your question now and elaborate in my reply to Wes. You are correct. It was a gift from his wife, Nicole. I'm glad you got to see that show! He was very nervous about playing it that night... but he didn't let it show.
Brian and I had been discussing the guitar for about a year before Nicole came up with the idea to surprise him for his birthday.
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@RadiantDarkness And no, he had absolutely no idea.
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@andrewthomas said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
@RadiantDarkness And no, he had absolutely no idea.
Wow! what a gift and amazing wife! I should add that Brian not knowing prob really screws up my collaboration theory!
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@andrewthomas What are the main differences between his previous guitars and the one you built? Have you noticed a change in his playing since making the switch?
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@uconnwes said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
How did the Raven come about? Interested in Andrew's relationship with Brian and how they collaborated on the amazing sounding axe.I saw my first Spafford show in the summer of 2013, after @Andrew-Beckius (who pretty much introduces everyone to everyone/everything here in the AZ music scene) for months kept saying, “You have to check out Spafford! You must!” Eventually, my wife, Melinda, and I did just that, and needless to say we were blown away… We saw them every chance we had that summer and fall and eventually, I couldn’t hold back my desire to talk to Brian about his guitars and the possibility of making him a custom guitar.
Melinda and I just got married in October, so I was standing a little taller - a little bit high on my horse - feeling good about myself that year. We went the the 11/24/13 show at the Sail Inn, and I remember my conversation with Melinda that night going something like, “Brian is insanely good. He needs a custom guitar, now. Why is he just playing a Gibson like everyone else?”
I am fairly shy around new people (except maybe behind the mask of a costume), so I needed a little help. With Melinda’s encouragement (and the help of maybe a little too much liquid courage) I went up to Brian after a show and somehow managed tell him what I do and get some info. I actually still have the note saved on my phone:
“November 24, 2013 at 1:21am
booking@spafford.net
Guitar
Les Paul and 339.”
I like the dedicated line for the word “guitar”, just in case I forgot the subject of our conversation.
Brian was really receptive to the idea of a custom guitar but had no idea when we could make it happen. In the meantime we worked out a deal where I would become their local guitar tech in exchange for Melinda and I getting into the shows for free. I’d also learn how Spafford works in case the needed a road tech in the future and I’d find ways I could help. This allowed some time before shows for Brian and I to talk about his current rig and his ideal guitar. Some shows I would bring guitars that I built or had and he would say what he likes and doesn’t like, and that sort of became our groove for 2014. We shared our ideas and learned a lot from each other.
It wasn’t until the fall of 2014 that Brian’s wife Nicole reached out to me and said she wants me to build Brian a guitar for his 30 birthday, but with one catch: it needs to be a surprise. I should have known it was coming becasue at many shows prior Nicole would always say something like, “You two have been talking about this guitar for a while now. It’s going to happen, so you better get ready!”
The whole surprise factor to this equation made the process interesting and fun to say the least. I had already drawn up some concept designs and narrowed down quite a few aspect of the build, but we still needed answers from Brian. Nicole and I were constantly hounding him with very specific questions about guitars. She was even going through guitar calendars and books: “That ebony binding looks really good on the walnut body, right, Brian? Much better than the maple binding, right? And those smaller pearl dots on the fingerboard, rather than those big Gibson ones, yes?” It was that obvious… but Brian is always such a busy bee that I’m pretty sure we could have said “Andrew is ordering tuners for your custom guitar and wants to know if you like gold or nickel hardware…” and may have still gotten away with it. -
@uconnwes said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
Did they noodle on design details for days or did Brian provide some general guidance and Andrew ran with it?Brian wanted an amalgamation of his two guitars, his Les Paul double cutaway and his 339. He preferred the tone that he got from the 339 semi-hollow body and its pickups, but missed the 24 frets and playability of his Les Paul.
As far as design goes, I had to follow some rules but Brian always had an open mind and trusted that I knew what I was doing. Certain parts of the guitar had to be symmetrical (the headstock with 3+3 tuners, fretboard inlay dots, f-hole placement, etc.). As for the body shape, I really wanted to design something that suited Brian’s playing style, sort of an aggressive yet elegant combination. -
Thanks for the info! Really cool backstory
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I am sure I speak for fans everywhere, thank you for building The Raven! It’s part of the cosmic plan coming together for Spafford! I love the way it sounds (he or she?) I hang on every note, it really sings in an amazing way = love the sustain!
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@uconnwes said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
Why did Brian need the Raven built say vs. sticking with Gibson or a PRS HollowBody?At first, I was more convinced that Brian needed a custom guitar more than I think Brian was. I do not believe that any one player will ever find a perfect guitar that does everything they want over their whole career as a musician. It is why many people own so many guitars. Sometimes you just need a telecaster in the studio to get that sound that fills the space just right for one particular song. Sometimes you play your 339 and you end up with the Pizza Jam because you’re sort of persuaded to play lower on the fretboard with that guitar.
I do think having a custom guitar is the closest thing you can get to that ideal or that compromise between more than one “favorite” guitar. You could buy five $1500 guitars over so many years, or you could get one really nice custom guitar that you'll always want to play.
Brian had never owned or really even played a fully hollow body electric with a floating bridge and tailpiece. However, it didn’t take long watching him play before I knew that he could bring out all the tone and resonance potential that comes with a hollow body and also have the technique to tame it on a loud stage. So knowing that and knowing Brian needed 24 frets (because he uses them all), you’re not many choices on the factory-built market. You may be able to get PRS or Gibson to do a custom shop guitar, but then you’re potentially in the $10,000 price range anyways. I think the relationship Brian and I built over the first year was essential in the creation of the Raven.
I could really talk for days about the differences between a high-production, factory-made guitar vs. one built by a individual luthier. I can follow up later if anyone is interested in that discussion.
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I know it is about 4:30 AZ time, but I am going to keep going if that's okay! It is a lot of fun reliving these stories.
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@square_slices said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
@andrewthomas @damian
To Andrew: ranch or bleu cheese?
To Damian: you're disgustingNeither are very good for gluing woods together…
I could learn from Damian's mistake and make my answer "bleu cheese", but maybe that is what you were planning all along... So I think my only option from here is to make the only indisputable choice: steak sauce.
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@andrewthomas love that sauce
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@dontjudgedave said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
> How did you get started as a Luthier?Thank you for your kind words!
My great-grandfather was a violin maker, and much of his unfinished violins were left to my grandfather. My grandfather was an amazing craftsman and could fix or build just about anything, but for some reason he never followed in his father's footsteps.
So growing up, there was always this unfinished history living in my grandparent's basement that I was very interested in. During my holiday visits, I’d secretly take down the violins and go through old boxes and look at all the small handmade tools. This definitely planted a seed in my head at a very young age.
There was one summer in my college years where my cousin and I bought a book, the bare minimum hand tools needed, and all the woods needed and attempted to build a classical guitar from scratch. We never finished that guitar, and I think my cousin still has all the parts laying around his house. At that point, I felt like I needed a more formal educational environment in which to learn this trade.
In 2009, I sold most of my possessions bought a truck, and hauled a small trailer from Lincoln, NE down to Phoenix in 2009 and began schooling a Roberto-Venn. After that, I worked for a local repair shop for a few years where I met Michael Collins. Mike and I started collaborating as luthiers, and he showed me everything he knows about Selmer Maccaferri guitars (gypsy jazz acoustics) and arch top guitars. We also joined forces and built and experimented with high-end fingerstyle steel string acoustic guitars. Check out Leuka Guitars to see those.
In 2013, I met Brian and Spafford, and you know that story now…
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@andrewthomas said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
@uconnwes said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
How did the Raven come about? Interested in Andrew's relationship with Brian and how they collaborated on the amazing sounding axe.I saw my first Spafford show in the summer of 2013, after @Andrew-Beckius (who pretty much introduces everyone to everyone/everything here in the AZ music scene) for months kept saying, “You have to check out Spafford! You must!” Eventually, my wife, Melinda, and I did just that, and needless to say we were blown away… We saw them every chance we had that summer and fall and eventually, I couldn’t hold back my desire to talk to Brian about his guitars and the possibility of making him a custom guitar.
Melinda and I just got married in October, so I was standing a little taller - a little bit high on my horse - feeling good about myself that year. We went the the 11/24/13 show at the Sail Inn, and I remember my conversation with Melinda that night going something like, “Brian is insanely good. He needs a custom guitar, now. Why is he just playing a Gibson like everyone else?”
I am fairly shy around new people (except maybe behind the mask of a costume), so I needed a little help. With Melinda’s encouragement (and the help of maybe a little too much liquid courage) I went up to Brian after a show and somehow managed tell him what I do and get some info. I actually still have the note saved on my phone:
“November 24, 2013 at 1:21am
booking@spafford.net
Guitar
Les Paul and 339.”
I like the dedicated line for the word “guitar”, just in case I forgot the subject of our conversation.
Brian was really receptive to the idea of a custom guitar but had no idea when we could make it happen. In the meantime we worked out a deal where I would become their local guitar tech in exchange for Melinda and I getting into the shows for free. I’d also learn how Spafford works in case the needed a road tech in the future and I’d find ways I could help. This allowed some time before shows for Brian and I to talk about his current rig and his ideal guitar. Some shows I would bring guitars that I built or had and he would say what he likes and doesn’t like, and that sort of became our groove for 2014. We shared our ideas and learned a lot from each other.
It wasn’t until the fall of 2014 that Brian’s wife Nicole reached out to me and said she wants me to build Brian a guitar for his 30 birthday, but with one catch: it needs to be a surprise. I should have known it was coming becasue at many shows prior Nicole would always say something like, “You two have been talking about this guitar for a while now. It’s going to happen, so you better get ready!”
The whole surprise factor to this equation made the process interesting and fun to say the least. I had already drawn up some concept designs and narrowed down quite a few aspect of the build, but we still needed answers from Brian. Nicole and I were constantly hounding him with very specific questions about guitars. She was even going through guitar calendars and books: “That ebony binding looks really good on the walnut body, right, Brian? Much better than the maple binding, right? And those smaller pearl dots on the fingerboard, rather than those big Gibson ones, yes?” It was that obvious… but Brian is always such a busy bee that I’m pretty sure we could have said “Andrew is ordering tuners for your custom guitar and wants to know if you like gold or nickel hardware…” and may have still gotten away with it.Something about this story is adorable to me. Thinking about you guys plotting (positively) behind his back, and also knowing Brian's nature... I can see it unfolding. Very very cool.
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@andrewthomas said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
@uconnwes said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
Did they noodle on design details for days or did Brian provide some general guidance and Andrew ran with it?Brian wanted an amalgamation of his two guitars, his Les Paul double cutaway and his 339. He preferred the tone that he got from the 339 semi-hollow body and its pickups, but missed the 24 frets and playability of his Les Paul.
As far as design goes, I had to follow some rules but Brian always had an open mind and trusted that I knew what I was doing. Certain parts of the guitar had to be symmetrical (the headstock with 3+3 tuners, fretboard inlay dots, f-hole placement, etc.). As for the body shape, I really wanted to design something that suited Brian’s playing style, sort of an aggressive yet elegant combination.Well said about his playing style, and clearly the guitar is an amazing expression of, and tool for, that style.
Can you (if you get the chance) elaborate on WHY Brian wanted the 3+3, the f-holes placed in a particular spot, etc... Were these just visual/stylistic elements or is there something about the construction of the guitar that feeds the sound/playability.
(disclaimer, I can strum some chords but I know NOTHING about actually playing a guitar...)
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@andrewthomas said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
I know it is about 4:30 AZ time, but I am going to keep going if that's okay! It is a lot of fun reliving these stories.
This is your show buddy. Travel through your mind and tell us stories. You're welcome to pick up the thread in the future too if that suits you. It's here to be written and read.
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@andrewthomas said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
@uconnwes said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
Why did Brian need the Raven built say vs. sticking with Gibson or a PRS HollowBody?At first, I was more convinced that Brian needed a custom guitar more than I think Brian was. I do not believe that any one player will ever find a perfect guitar that does everything they want over their whole career as a musician. It is why many people own so many guitars. Sometimes you just need a telecaster in the studio to get that sound that fills the space just right for one particular song. Sometimes you play your 339 and you end up with the Pizza Jam because you’re sort of persuaded to play lower on the fretboard with that guitar.
I do think having a custom guitar is the closest thing you can get to that ideal or that compromise between more than one “favorite” guitar. You could buy five $1500 guitars over so many years, or you could get one really nice custom guitar that you'll always want to play.
Brian had never owned or really even played a fully hollow body electric with a floating bridge and tailpiece. However, it didn’t take long watching him play before I knew that he could bring out all the tone and resonance potential that comes with a hollow body and also have the technique to tame it on a loud stage. So knowing that and knowing Brian needed 24 frets (because he uses them all), you’re not many choices on the factory-built market. You may be able to get PRS or Gibson to do a custom shop guitar, but then you’re potentially in the $10,000 price range anyways. I think the relationship Brian and I built over the first year was essential in the creation of the Raven.
I could really talk for days about the differences between a high-production, factory-made guitar vs. one built by a individual luthier. I can follow up later if anyone is interested in that discussion.
You talk... we listen. I'll say again, tell stories. This is a world so many of us know nothing about but we can connect to in an extremely personal way. So hearing the why of what we feel is really cool. At least for me.
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@andrewthomas said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
@dontjudgedave said in Q & A: Wednesday 1/10, 5PM Eastern - Andrew J. Thomas, Luthier and Creator Of The Raven:
> How did you get started as a Luthier?Thank you for your kind words!
My great-grandfather was a violin maker, and much of his unfinished violins were left to my grandfather. My grandfather was an amazing craftsman and could fix or build just about anything, but for some reason he never followed in his father's footsteps.
So growing up, there was always this unfinished history living in my grandparent's basement that I was very interested in. During my holiday visits, I’d secretly take down the violins and go through old boxes and look at all the small handmade tools. This definitely planted a seed in my head at a very young age.
There was one summer in my college years where my cousin and I bought a book, the bare minimum hand tools needed, and all the woods needed and attempted to build a classical guitar from scratch. We never finished that guitar, and I think my cousin still has all the parts laying around his house. At that point, I felt like I needed a more formal educational environment in which to learn this trade.
In 2009, I sold most of my possessions bought a truck, and hauled a small trailer from Lincoln, NE down to Phoenix in 2009 and began schooling a Roberto-Venn. After that, I worked for a local repair shop for a few years where I met Michael Collins. Mike and I started collaborating as luthiers, and he showed me everything he knows about Selmer Maccaferri guitars (gypsy jazz acoustics) and arch top guitars. We also joined forces and built and experimented with high-end fingerstyle steel string acoustic guitars. Check out Leuka Guitars to see those.
In 2013, I met Brian and Spafford, and you know that story now…
Wow! This blows my mind. The idea that this is in your blood... and to see the way you pursued it. I could tell you similar stories about engineering, and specifically software engineering, in my own family.
It's amazing how we follow in our families footsteps... as if our fates were spelled out for us long before.
I love too that you went "all in" on this dream that you had since you were little. I'm sure that the Spafford boys would tell you that they had similar moments. Each of them committing to manifest an impossible dream. I mean, if you told the kids at school when you were young that you were going to make guitars... that sounds like a fantasy... but if you will it... it is no dream.
Thank you for taking on the risk and pursuing your dream. That says a lot about who you are as a person.
